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PlayStation®Suite SDK 0.98

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PlayStation®Suite SDK 0.98

Postby akram » 19 Apr 2012, 19:58

Hi All,

Sony has opened their SDK for PS Vita for all people, it's just a Beta but it looks very interesting. Are there any plans to make an exporter for Shiva?

Link: http://www.playstation.com/pss/developer/openbeta/index_e.html
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Re: PlayStation®Suite SDK 0.98

Postby redmotion » 19 Apr 2012, 20:49

I think with each platform Stonetrip have to look at the tradeoff between how long it takes to implement and how many people will want to use it. If Sony are going to move their appstore to a more "open" model like Android, Apple or Blackberry then I'd definitely be interested in porting to PSVita. I hope a port to PS Suite is almost as easy as the Blackberry one...

Problem Sony have is that over-saturation puts "real" developers off, they like the exclusivity and the entry fee usually reflects that. But at the same time they must look over at the revenue from the Apple Appstore with envy. Hopefully they can find a midway point with a low cost to entry but a good QA barrier.
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Re: PlayStation®Suite SDK 0.98

Postby shivachristy » 22 Apr 2012, 16:41

I would wager that shiva will be on that platform within a month.
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Re: PlayStation®Suite SDK 0.98

Postby dreamora » 22 Apr 2012, 19:21

redmotion wrote:Problem Sony have is that over-saturation puts "real" developers off, they like the exclusivity and the entry fee usually reflects that. But at the same time they must look over at the revenue from the Apple Appstore with envy. Hopefully they can find a midway point with a low cost to entry but a good QA barrier.


Thats how it used to be, the 'real developer' benefit of exclusivity. But lets face it: The majority of those are bound to publishers and publishers totally stall innovation and Sony has no chance to survive at all without innovation so they will open the flood gates significantly more than they used to do before. Also you can only go for exclusivity if you have a serious backup by the industry. But the PSVita lineup for example sucks so badly that I cancelled my preorder ... thats a first timer in 15 years, that I cancelled a preorder I placed over 16months prior launch due to absolute frustration over the lack of 'acceptable' launch title.

The $99 entry fee once the sdk leaves the beta pretty clearly shows that they are willing to invite a significantly larger number of devs.
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Re: PlayStation®Suite SDK 0.98

Postby ImperialPenguin » 22 Apr 2012, 22:02

The Playstation Suite uses C#, so I'm not sure it would be trivial to port Shiva over to it. There certainly isn't a WP7 port yet. Also, the PS Suite apparently doesn't allow you to use the full power of the Vita, as they want PS Suite games to run on all Playstation Certified devices. That means that we are essentially locked into the capabilities of the aging Xperia hardware. I'd much rather see Shiva ported for use with a proper Vita development license. It might be a lot more expensive, but I think the quality of what we would be able to put out is worth it. I see the development of console games as a step up in my evolution as a developer and considering there are people on the PS Suite forums asking to be able to code in BASIC, I have a feeling that many of the games created are going to be as low quality as some of the games on iOS and Android.
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Re: PlayStation®Suite SDK 0.98

Postby Dany0 » 11 Aug 2012, 14:31

I recently developed an interest in the platform. I think opening the market for indie developers is crucial for Sony, and I'd love to give it a try. The PS Vita looks like a rather remarkable device, though I think with the current rapid advancements in the mobile technology, Sony will have to upgrade the mobile platform's hardware more often.
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Re: PlayStation®Suite SDK 0.98

Postby DoctorPepper » 11 Aug 2012, 16:19

I guess that the biggest plus is knowing that everyone is on the same hardware.
Plus, ipads and iphones still have a long way to go to match vitas performance.
Imagine not being restricted to a certain polygon count in the scene, texture size (reasonably), physics objects, free to use specular and normal mapping on everything, dynamic lighting, shadows, reflection, render maps, particle count etc.
Then price it 5 bucks, an it'l still be the cheapest thing on the market
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Re: PlayStation®Suite SDK 0.98

Postby dreamora » 11 Aug 2012, 17:37

you realize that the Vita is an iPad3 with 4 cores instead of 2 cores on the cpu. The rest is equal or weaker hardware wise.
The PSVIta just has the benefit that it can do 5-6 times+ as much with that GPU as the screen has far far less pixels ;) (less than the iphone 4)

I got myself a psvita for pssuite experimenting and would love to see targeting for it in Shiva. Would add another reason to really dive deep into it :)
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Re: PlayStation®Suite SDK 0.98

Postby DoctorPepper » 11 Aug 2012, 21:32

Wel that puts me back in my place!
So playstation actually put apples PowerVR SGX 543 into the handheld, with only 512 MB RAM, 128 MB VRAM. What is this, 2005? No wonder they get so little support from developers. Who wants to start stripping down and further optimizing games that were released years ago. Those are decent specs for a handheld, but in 10 month apple will show up with twice that speed, while vita is stuck with that "power for the next 5-7 years? It might be the very last generation for the portable ps.
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Re: PlayStation®Suite SDK 0.98

Postby dreamora » 12 Aug 2012, 10:11

It has no need for more memory than that.
Keep in mind that it is a gaming machine, not a general purpose platform that happens to support gaming.
The later requires infinitely more RAM to do the same job at gaming (especially when you keep in mind that iOS5 eats away up to 250MB of RAM and I would suspect iOS6 to be even worse) than a dedicated gaming device where the OS puts everything irrelevant to sleep while you play games (they don't offer hooks to do background messing as android which comes with 1GB ram and would need 2GB due to the craptastic memory management and process handling - iOS devices still come at 512MB which means 300mb usable)

Best thing to give you an idea on that is to remind you that back in the days the PS3 was launched, gaming PCs had 2-4GB RAM already with 256MB+ VRAM gpus.

In comparision the PS3 has 256MB RAM and 256MB VRAM (xbox 360 has 512MB combined)
If you compare that to the PSVita you will rather fast realize that the PSVita is by dedicated gaming measures a monster.
Even more if you look at the rumor leaked specs of the WiiU which is mentioned to have 1.5GB of RAM (and thats a 1080p output machine with 2 screens and 3D support so it needs a massive amount of RAM just to handle these tasks)

I guess you are woried about the 128mb vram but thats no problem for two reasons:
1. The screen res is lower than that of the iphone retina -> far lower resolution required on the texture to look good. Yet that res is backed with the gpu power of the ipad3, not the iphone4 ;)
2. The 512MB RAM can be used to cache the images not in use right now to lower loading times etc or to even near nullify it, so not the slightest problem

The reason why they likely force seperated it is the guarantee on ram availability for the program execution, a major problem that plagues you on iOS / Android, cause you can never be assured that your programm will not run into memory problems and just crash (android) or get memory warnings and then gets killed (iOS)
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Re: PlayStation®Suite SDK 0.98

Postby DoctorPepper » 12 Aug 2012, 11:52

Vita res is still 960x544
So you might still be looking at 1024x1024 textures for use in close ups for main charcters and scenes. In tga it could be 1-2mb. Adding lightmaps will double mempry required, adding normal maps will add again to the memory load. Tile that texture a few times for big terrains or structures. Hud elements, calculate vetrices etc it all adds up.
Not a problem for us, but think about aaa titles like battlefield. 24 players multiplayer, huge open spaces. No wonder that they refused to port from the console vers
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Re: PlayStation®Suite SDK 0.98

Postby dreamora » 12 Aug 2012, 15:13

This kind of title won't happen on mobile because 'big open' makes 0 sense in a focused mobile experience.

Look at the upcoming Black Ops as an example or any shooter for iOS. 'open' is exactly what you are not going to see.
Indoor and 'intense action' focused is the credo for mobile shooters.

Naturally you are right on the textures but I doubt htat anyone would claim that uncharted looked bad, cause otherwise 99.999999% of all iOS titles suck absolutely visually even those targeted at ipad3 only. As such its possible :)
And yes 1024x1024 is needed, but the ipad3 requires 2048x2048 at least to work out, thats 4x the memory.

Also the PSVita has one benefit iOS has not: It can fully use PVRTC2 compression, a thing not possible on iOS as iPhone 3GS, iPhone4 and iPad1 don't support it. That makes a hell of a difference (it has nothing to do with the artifacts on the pvrtc compression as you are used to anymore), so in the end those 1024x1024 require as much space as a 256x256 texture in VRAM

And as mentioned: don't forget that textures not in view at the very moment can be cached in RAM and transfered near instantly into the VRAM, aka memory streaming
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