ShiVa 2.0 news

[Strokey44]

I just got to put this out there. I think some of you guys are being too demanding. Stonetrip is working hard on 2.0. When in their history have they ripped anyone off? They have always had a nice product, been quick to fix errors and help the community. You know, a lot of what they are doing is not easy and takes time. Sometimes things take more time than predicted. We as game developers should know that. It's better for a company to not give an exact date, than to give one and have to push it back, again and again. I have also paid for 1.9.1 to get the 2.0 update. But you don't see me freaking out.

Take your time Stonetrip, and make another great product. Thank you.

[varnado]

Take your time Stonetrip, and make another great product. Thank you.

I totally agree with you, even thou 1.9.1 is near perfect and 2.0 is just a nice bonus!

Stability and performance are what a game engine needs and Shiva has high standards for both of them. I am so happy for my investment in Shiva

[codinghero]

I'm not freaking out at all. I'm just pointing out the fact that they did put this package out there and have yet to deliver. And that if people are disgruntled and want their money back they are entitled to it. As I said, I'm on break right now anyway, but in two moths it'll be time to evaluate the situation.

[dreamora]

Please don't start such wars.

It won't help in any form, nobody nor the communication problem.
Also references to the USA and VISA are of no interest at all.

In the EU PR is legally binding and entitles for refunds when its not fullfilled in a reasonable way, so that would be a that large problem but I'm pretty confident that nobody really is up to such meaningless wars as the effort, time and money >> engine license fee especially for basic licenses

[marek.p]

Some advice for stonetrip:
1) Don't give exact date! (till it's really ready)
2) instead start beta program for 2.0 ASAP
3) focus only on important platforms!!!
4) make assets store!!!
5) enable plugins creation for basic or even free version
6) try not to invent the wheel - instead writing code editor/debugger it would be better to write/use existing plugin for eclipse/lua->shiva, the same for c++ with eclipse and visual studio (see Unity->MonoDevelop). Provide full Lua features and try to make the same (compiling code and preview results in editor) with c++ and above external IDEs(that would be great feature for more serious games)
7) extend 3D engine for less than competitors (especially for indies, may be separate licenses for greater companies and/or separate pricing for each platform)
Listen to the customers' good ideas

Good luck.

[jerryw]

Some advice for stonetrip:
1) Don't give exact date! (till it's really ready)
2) instead start beta program for 2.0 ASAP
3) focus only on important platforms!!!
4) make assets store!!!
5) enable plugins creation for basic or even free version
6) try not to invent the wheel - instead writing code editor/debugger it would be better to write/use existing plugin for eclipse/lua->shiva, the same for c++ with eclipse and visual studio (see Unity->MonoDevelop). Provide full Lua features and try to make the same (compiling code and preview results in editor) with c++ and above external IDEs(that would be great feature for more serious games)
7) extend 3D engine for less than competitors (especially for indies, may be separate licenses for greater companies and/or separate pricing for each platform)
Listen to the customers' good ideas

Good luck.

+1

I agree it's better to start 2.0 beta program soon to get developers's feedback and comments.

If enable plugins creation for basic version, your shiva team will save many time to develop some common features, say Admob, OpenFeint...

[badfish]

Some interesting opinions on all sides here, but i will disagree with one thing

Telling Stonetrip to just take there time and say when its ready is not a correct customer relationship. We are Stonetrips paying clients, therefore we should have expectations, those amoung us who use these tools professionally (i am just a hobbyist, but a paying one) need roadmaps and ideas of updates so they can plan work and meet their client expectations.

If i told my clients i would have their work ready when i was ready, i can tell you now i would have been laughed out of business a long time ago. For all of my career, i have worked to strict deadlines, and when we could not meet them, we dropped features and moved them to updates on clear roadmaps agreed with the clients.

Having a basic quarter by quarter break down with some release/update targets would be a nice start.

[RawenGroup]

4) Assets store is good and need for bigger commercial activity
5) Works on 1.9 correctly , learn c++ programming
6) MS VS C++ Express work correctly
Shiva lua editor work perfect, use 2 monitor

[.eb]

For ShiVa 2.0, we decided to rewrite everything from scratch, which was a big (crazy?) challenge.

brilliant and crazy!
Best of luck on a smooth release!

[drewtyse]

As a potential new customer for Shiva (but not new to software development) I've been lurking and using the PLE version to learn the various bits and pieces of the software. On a whole I do like it and am looking forward to possibly purchasing a license. However, this whole 2.0 delay from a new customer perspective does concern me and is probably one of the major things stopping me from committing financially to the software and even fully committing to using it as a primary development tool for a mobile development project. Some things that really concern me and would love to see addressed before fully jumping in:

1) The 2.0 delay. I've read a lot of the posts and announcements from quite some time ago and can understand existing customers' frustrations. I'm feeling frustrated on everyone's behalf just seeing how long the delays to the new version has taken and the minimalist communicative approach being used by Stonetrip. Not giving a date for the release might be excusable if there was an alpha or beta for existing customers in play, but no release date with no alpha/beta for paid customers is unacceptable and existing customers have every right to be annoyed especially after this much waiting.

2) The small number of active and new users on this forum.. this most likely indicates fairly weak weekly sales of the Shiva engine (will all the people that bought licenses this week please put their hands up?). This in turn most likely indicates that Stonetrip is making money mainly on their consulting and other projects and not from Shiva product sales. This basically means that their priorities are not in releasing 2.0 or a new engine, but in engaging in other work to pay the bills.

3) The apparent disinterest in Stonetrip to create comprehensive step by step guides and developing proper tutorials and user guides for beginners... this is a fairly major and serious issue. The main 'reference' is Shando's book which was written in 2009!! Wow. All of us in the tech industry know that this is a ridiculously long time ago. The links to many of the examples of the wiki are just broken and, from a customer service perspective, this just seems unprofessional, cheap and shows a lack of pride in presenting their product to new and existing customers. As a Project Manager I would often throw tutorial and documentation tasks like this to junior engineers as part of their 'learning' or induction process and have a senior QA it. Seems like a no brainer. Great books, tutorials and guides actually can increase sales dramatically, whereas bad tutorials/guides can drive sales away.

I really like Shiva and am very keen to commit to it, but would like to see Stonetrip commit to it more than they do. From the outside looking in it very much *feels* that Stonetrip are more committed to the professional services which pay the bills (which perhaps has been a major driving factor in building all the platform support features) but weak product sales mean that they have lost their way in terms of prioritising their Shiva product and hence delays in release/betas/announcements. This is what it *seems* from my perspective but who really knows whats going on (which is part of the problem - no one really knows whats going on).

Shiva IS a great product, but the communication and perhaps strategic issues *seem* to be the main things holding it back.

[marek.p]

5) Works on 1.9 correctly , learn c++ programming

I meant full support for plugins (with export) from at least basic version.

6) MS VS C++ Express work correctly
Shiva lua editor work perfect, use 2 monitor

C++ works as one way export only. I meant developing and debugging AI in Eclipse/Visual Studio while previewing results + editing scene in Editor. I wouldn't compare Shiva lua editor with above IDEs.

[RawenGroup]

5) Works on 1.9 correctly , learn c++ programming

I meant full support for plugins (with export) from at least basic version.

6) MS VS C++ Express work correctly
Shiva lua editor work perfect, use 2 monitor

C++ works as one way export only. I meant developing and debugging AI in Eclipse/Visual Studio while previewing results + editing scene in Editor. I wouldn't compare Shiva lua editor with above IDEs.

The world is not perfect, but living together him.

[radek_ne]

I also think that the permission to create plugin + asset store will allow the joint development of the engine. Plugins like AdMob, helicopter simulator, game center ... Most of us could have something to add. Users react very quickly and will improve the plug-ins. And so we help ourselves to each other on the forum.

[peter]

Why don't you include things like a AdMob on basic or advanced edition? I think it would be great feature.

[Mm2k]

This may be a dumb question, but will projects from < 2.0 still work with 2.0?