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ShiVa 2.0 news: flamewar edition

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Re: ShiVa 2.0 news

Postby .eb » 03 Apr 2012, 10:38

@ those crying about free..
slap();
:D

Personally, I like the fact that Shiva allows you to use the PLE/Web Version for free to learn to use the product without time limitations..then once your project is ready to release, you simply pay $200 for it. HOW can THAT get ANY better ? I don't think it can..and being "free" would not make that better. You see, paying some money, keeps nonsense and riff-raff away..look at Google Play, they force a $25 charge simply to weed out spam apps. ..is it effective, I'd like to think so.
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Re: ShiVa 2.0 news

Postby ale870 » 04 Apr 2012, 22:21

Hello,
I just found this "new" thread and I was very excited about these good news.
But you killed me when I saw there was many pages inside (7 pages of posts!).
I red somethings here and there but I didn't understand a couple of things (sorry):

1) is there any info when Shiva 2.0 will be out?
2) LUA is FULLY supported (so I can include external lua code, I can let make functions that "talk" (recall) quickly one of each other (instead of using messages which are very sloow!).

Thank you, and I'm sorry in advance if I duplicated some questions!
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Re: ShiVa 2.0 news

Postby Rotundjere2 » 05 Apr 2012, 11:44

Id' like to see this several features to be on 2.0 :

+ custom shader
+ overall user interface improvement
+ variable creation inside code (not by clicking on variable menu)
+ improved animation import
+ improved terrain generator mechanism (how to create the terrain)
+ plugin mechanism
+ include follow camera script
+ add the W, A, S, D (or arrow key) for navigation on the scene (like CryEngine3), that would be awesome :)

And the most important:

+ Make the Shiva Basic 100% Free (to publish on android & ios) with limitation such as splash screen,
this will help growth of Stonetrip because many potential consumers will see "Powered by-Shiva logo"... or at least they know about Shiva
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Re: ShiVa 2.0 news

Postby dreamora » 05 Apr 2012, 12:11

plugin mechanism has existed since 2011 already
I'm no stonetrip representative, just a happy board member like you :)

If you find my portfolio interesting, feel free to contact me or follow my shares on my twitter stream or my game development blog
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Re: ShiVa 2.0 news

Postby ThunderZ » 05 Apr 2012, 12:29

You maybe need to read before make some post, Rotundjere2 :
http://www.stonetrip.com/developer/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=25417#p43929

+ custom shader

From NiCoX :
- custom shaders support, including a cross platform assembly language

+ overall user interface improvement
+ variable creation inside code (not by clicking on variable menu)


From NiCoX :
+ About the Editor:

So, for now months, if not years, a part of our team is working exclusively on the upcoming version of (y)our tool. ShiVa 1.X has been made years after years, and became hard to maintain and to make evolve. For ShiVa 2.0, we decided to rewrite everything from scratch, which was a big (crazy?) challenge. But we did it and most of the hard work is now behind us. But indeed, that also means all is not finished, and yes, we are late. We are late but we don't want to release something unfinished, and we are convinced it worth the wait. About an expected date, I don't have one, unfortunately. About what this new editor will bring, here is a short list:

- a cross platform editor, available for Windows, Mac and Linux
- a new UI design, with many usage and workflow improvements
- the possibility to create editor modules, using XML files and Lua 5.1 scripts
- a complete editor script API
- a command line version, making it possible to automate desired tasks on a headless server
- a generalized "multi target" asset management system, to simplify cross-platform development
- a full undo/redo support
- a Maya-like shelf
- fully customizable key bindings
- multicore support for heavy tasks
- micro updates
- particle engine enhancements
- HUD improvements and enhancements


+ improved animation import

Well why not but shiva import is working very well.

+ improved terrain generator mechanism (how to create the terrain)

Why not, maybe editor pluging by user will add other type of generation

+ plugin mechanism

Allready here

+ include follow camera script

You could do that allready by script or by export animation in any DCC tools.

+ add the W, A, S, D (or arrow key) for navigation on the scene (like CryEngine3), that would be awesome

Editor Script will be easy to added this option.

And the most important:
+ Make the Shiva Basic 100% Free (to publish on android & ios) with limitation such as splash screen,this will help growth of Stonetrip because many potential consumers will see "Powered by-Shiva logo"... or at least they know about Shiva

You allready explain you problem about the cost of the engine but if you want a free version just use any FREE SDK or some limited offer like unity.
But plz stop write those type of things, this is stupid to thing for me that a commercial game engine need to be free (+ads) for being popular.
Shiva is an awesome engine with a very low price and an exellent license for personal dev or indie studio. If you want it just save money (sometime it's take time) and buy it but stop write thing like that just because you want to dev freely on IOS+Android.
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Re: ShiVa 2.0 news

Postby Rotundjere2 » 06 Apr 2012, 05:17

+ add the W, A, S, D (or arrow key) for navigation on the scene (like CryEngine3), that would be awesome

Editor Script will be easy to added this option.


Editor script impossible to do this..
I think you don't understand about W, A, S, D navigation (inside the editor scene, not gameplay).. try CE3 then


and about shiva price $200/$400, think about CE/Unreal.. it's available for $99 (and it's more worthed)
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Re: ShiVa 2.0 news

Postby dtr1au » 06 Apr 2012, 05:51

Rotundjere2,

You need to understand the market most people which Shiva target. The entire "vision" of stonetrip is to provide a solution that can target the most platforms in the world. They do this, and do it very well (in my 'limited' experience they do this far better than anyone else). Some people, and myself to an extent, do see the problems with this strategy as sometimes progress and implementation of new features can be slow.

Currently as it stands, if you just want to target PC only then better options might exist, and that you have to evaluate that on a per project basis.

Also, yes you can pay $99 for UDK to publish your projects, that is 50% of the cost of Shiva with the current promotion, but you must take into consideration the royalty arrangements also. For most developers they wont hit the %50k threshold, but for the ones that do they will be paying many many times more in royalties than an outright purchase of Shiva. Not saying the royalty system is bad, because it's not and I've been toying more with UDK while I await for shiva 2.0, but make sure you understand people have different business models and needs, they might see UDK and CryEngine as massive costs and 'risks' to some extent. So using the cost as an argument against any software is completely one way and biased. Wait until you make a game and I will complain to you that it should be 100% free with no IAP, even though you spent thousands of hours on it all because there is another game that I can play which is free... See my point.

Regarding the scene navigation, how it works is perfectly fine in my opinion, but everyone is different and options are nice. With 2.0, it might be possible as we can script our own editor modules, so might be able to make our own scene viewer module that has different navigation capabilities.

Once 2.0 is released, we should start seeing features implemented quicker. With the entire editor re-written (because 2 years ago the community begged for it and Stonetrip is just delivering on the demand) they can start putting focus on all the nice new features (PS... updated terrain editor for 2.1 please)
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Re: ShiVa 2.0 news

Postby ThunderZ » 06 Apr 2012, 07:40

Rotundjere2 wrote:
+ add the W, A, S, D (or arrow key) for navigation on the scene (like CryEngine3), that would be awesome

Editor Script will be easy to added this option.


Editor script impossible to do this..
I think you don't understand about W, A, S, D navigation (inside the editor scene, not gameplay).. try CE3 then


and about shiva price $200/$400, think about CE/Unreal.. it's available for $99 (and it's more worthed)


Seriously DID YOU READ AND UNDERSTAND the post of NicoX ?

Shiva Editor v2.x will have the abilitie to extend the editor way by module/extention (like unity) and the editor will have editor API.
- a complete editor script API


So i rewrite it, it will be easy to add this to the editor.
And YES i allready know and tested UDK and Cry3 (and i also prefer fps style move under an editor).

For the shiva price i thing you don't know anything about the market and just see the basic price output with out comparaison between feature, target, ect..ect..
If you want to code a lot (amd make a lot of time doing asset) go use the udk or cry3 if the price is correct for you.
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Re: ShiVa 2.0 news

Postby Rotundjere2 » 06 Apr 2012, 09:10

ThunderZ wrote:Seriously DID YOU READ AND UNDERSTAND the post of NicoX ?



2.0 is not released yet, and you're making lame excuse .


read this, good poit from straybullet

straybullet wrote:I am surprised this can of worms was opened.

Let be honest here, a game engine is a tool. A tool is a good as the person whom yields it.



Yes Unity has features Shiva doesn't and vice-versa.

I think Android support is strong on Unity (my big concern. Unity is more expensive, but not in my case I took advantage of the free engine licenses for Android & IOS, plus purchased Playmaker which makes Unity a whole lot easier.


But I digress... A tool is like anything else you should be properly trained to use it. I am afraid this is where Shiva falls short the most. The documentation is horrid. Its bland and assumes a lot.

There is a Shiva book many scream.. see here that was written by a user how many years ago?

There are tutorials you may say, I guess someone needs to remove ALL the broken tutorial links on the site because it is full of them.

Also lack of communication from the developers is another huge downfall.

Right now Shiva looks desperate, still advertising last year's winter promo. Ie buy it now and get 2.0 (whenever that might be.)...

Don't get me wrong, Shiva is a great engine and could be so much better in my opinion, but I have seen little effort towards improving documentation or really increased communication.

There some great people in these forums, but so many answers go unanswered, not that its anyone's job here to answer them all, but this is basically it for support and documentation.

Now go to Unity and see how much more activity is going on, how many tutorials, assets etc are available.

If you ever heard of the Commodore Amiga I like to compare it to Shiva....

It was way ahead of it's time, it was easy to use, it was cheaper than the competition.

Well it rested on its laurels. Bad management help drive it in to the ground, slowed down R&D, promised many things but never delivered. The competition came in and wiped it off the face of the planet. Take from this what you will, but honestly Shiva needs a kick start pretty soon and not more target platforms....
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Re: ShiVa 2.0 news

Postby ThunderZ » 06 Apr 2012, 09:49

Rotundjere2 wrote:
ThunderZ wrote:Seriously DID YOU READ AND UNDERSTAND the post of NicoX ?

2.0 is not released yet, and you're making lame excuse .


I just reply to your post about "Id' like to see this several features to be on 2.0......"

For the reply from straybullet this is an very old subject on this forum since maybe the start of the shiva engine.
shiva engine and team is young and can't (but try) animate the community as the unity one witch is now most animated bu user community.
If we want good tutorials, samples, tutos, free code ect..ect..
We have to make ur (we = shiva user) and build ur great community too ;)
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Re: ShiVa 2.0 news: flamewar edition

Postby broozar » 06 Apr 2012, 12:05

a little reminder to anyone involved in this topic: keep your cool, keep your calm, and do not insult each other. and do not spam news topics.
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Re: ShiVa 2.0 news: flamewar edition

Postby RedQueen » 06 Apr 2012, 12:26

Flamewar edition good one.

@Stonetrip
Is there a chance there will be some screens soon??
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Re: ShiVa 2.0 news: flamewar edition

Postby ThunderZ » 06 Apr 2012, 14:23

Yes screen teasing will be good :)
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Re: ShiVa 2.0 news: flamewar edition

Postby .eb » 08 Apr 2012, 22:17

are there any screens of 2.0 alpha/beta ?
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